By the name of one and almighty God, with presenting my greeting to you all friends and fans of this program; I am happy that I am at your service by presenting another program supported by the Change in Life Compiegne.
Our today’s topic of discussion is about the proving of age in the centers of improving and training of children; the guests that we have today with us are Mr. Abdullah Abid, Head of the children section of the independence human rights commission in Afghanistan, also Ms. Robaba “Parwani Darwaish”, Parliament member from Kabul Province as well as member of the civil society of human rights commission & women affairs and Ms. Safoora “Alkhani” member of the parliament from Bamyan Province and member of the martyr and disables commission.
Question: Mr. Abid; what kinds of the centers are the improving and training centers for children and based on what these are created?
Answer: The goal or aims of creating these centers are very much clear and I would like to say that as there are prisons for the elders who are committing crimes; similarly these centers are for those who are under 18 years old and when they commit a crime then there should be places where the get the lessons of steerage and discipline and these centers are created for this purpose. The categories of these children are also different, until the age of 12 years there is no punishment for them at all and when they are over 12 years old based on the law they are kept in these centers until the due dates are matured; where this is considered as the final way and remedy until the maturity of their periods but their punishments differ based on their ages.
Question: If we consider the crime; each of the crime committed by the elders, the children also commits the same crime; in this case should these children also be kept in these centers?
Answer: It is to mention that there is a difference between the small violations and offensive behavior because it varies from severity of crime.
Based on the law offensive behavior is the type of crime which has punishment from 24 hours up to 3 months imprison and with a financial fine of 3,000 Afs.
Whenever the children committed such crimes then they are not kept in these centers but they are kept in their homes and if these crimes are repeated then they are kept in these centers; in these cases the justice institutions has an open hand and they can decide about the children by considering their ages. One point should be clear that there is a difference between crime and violation; all those actions which are considered as crime for the elders is considered as violation for the children because the elements of crime are the three; lawful, material and spiritual elements and until these three elements are not completed we cannot call it as crime.
Question: Ms. Parwani; please provide us information about the conditions of these centers where the children are kept?
Answer: As Mr. Abid said; we cannot consider each and every violation of the children as crime and when a child commit a violation; then its repetition should be prevented. In overall we can say that the situations and conditions of the prisons are too bad because if we visit a women prison then we can find that children under 18 years are with their mothers which is really sorrowful; therefore, whenever we are talking about the about the children centers then there are problems as well there because they are not aware of their rights and the most serious problem is that in Afghanistan there is not any proper system for proofing the age of the children and whenever the children are born they are not given their identity cards; because whenever there is a need then the parents forget the exact age of their children and they just say an age from their side to get the identity card and it creates as problem when a violation is committed by the child because his/her exact age is not known and the decision would be hard where to keep him/her. So we can say that in centers there are persons above the age of 18 years which is a serious problem by itself and the children are not having good conditions there.
Question: Ms. Alkhani; if you can please tell us that whatever problems mentioned, you think there are more serious problems then these?
Answer: Yes, based on the reports from Bamyan Province; there are problems existing in these centers because there the children of under 18 years should be kept but the fact is that there are children above twenty years and it is a serious tragedy among the children who are not well aware of their rights and these adults are also with them. The other problem is that they don’t have any proper place to rest and stay and in the same place there are persons with grown up ages and grown up crimes and as a result these children also become criminals and killers; unfortunately until now there has not been done any kind of supervision from the authorities for these children.
Question: Mr. Abid; whenever the two children one with the smaller crime and the other with the bigger crime are kept in the same place then what would be effects of keeping both of them together on each other?
Answer: First of all I would like to say that regarding the proofing of age we have a council which is known as children’s improving and training centers council; the meetings of these councils are conducted in each quarter, where different relevant institutions are participating. Regarding the effects on each other of them I should say that definitely there would be effects because there are children under 18 years old and persons above 18 years and the relevant authorities should focus towards this issue.
Question: Ms. Parwani; the children who are kept in these centers with a variation of age, is the functions and actions of the older children negatively effect on the younger ones?
Answer: As we are all Muslims and when we refer to the directions of Islam regarding these issues; we see that each child in different stages of life has different capabilities and we need to act upon it. As one child is growing then he/she passes different stages of steerage and whenever these children commit violations and they are kept in a place then it has problems and the other point is that the one who has the responsibility of taking care of them they don’t have specialty in this regard and are working against this field. This results indiscipline and those children who are willing to recover after violation and the other side is not willing then it has its direct effects because these children are not willing to recover and they are committing other crimes and after coming out of these centers they rehearse those crimes which they learnt from others.
One more point to mention that these centers require more talented and strong teachers as compare to the ordinary schools.
Question: Ms. Akhani; is there the problem of technical teachers in Bamyan Province?
Answer: In the center of Bamyan Province for the wrongdoer children there is no place but there is one prison where a specific place is allocated for the wrongdoer children and after a period of time then they are shifted to Kabul. The other problems which could be named are proofing the age, teaching and health but it is to say that compare to Kabul the number of these children in Bamyan are few.
Question: Ms. Alkhani; how much work you have done for these children as a parliament member of Bamyan?
Answer: As you know; I am a member of the parliament and my work is to supervise and that I have done, I have carried their problems to the relevant authorities and has requested for the follow up, but we are not the executive bodies to hire teachers and doctors for them.
Question: Mr. Abid; what is the role of the government in the creation of facilities in these centers?
Answer: As based on the law there is a need for these centers therefore, the government has also responsibility to create facilities for them; as we have a lawful government then we should act upon the laws.
The child who is a wrongdoer and is kept in these centers is for the purpose of betterment and once he is recovered to be handed over to the government back therefore the government has the responsibility of his food and clothes in a proper way and as well as seriously take care of their hygiene; also there are problems in their studies because there are different age category persons and in variation of classes and there is not possibility to have separate classes for them. This problem is considered to some extent in the capital but it is still in the provinces and the Ministry of Education cannot provide separate teachers for them.
The other work which is required to be done for these children is to make facilities for them in the area of sports and occupation because once they are coming out of these centers they should have learnt some occupation and profession.
Question: If the age proofs are done properly; how much these problems could be solved?
Answer: Age proofs are the basic problems and if it done in an accurate way then most of the problems would be solved and from the legal and lawful side it helps the society because if someone has completed the legal age then can have some official work in the framework of the government. If the age of the females are not proved properly then it could also create problems for them like before they reach to the legal age they may get married.
Question: Ms. Darwaish; based on your view the non-availability of these centers in some of the provinces is problem creator for the children and their families?
Answer: these centers are available in most of the provinces but with problems, in some places these centers are having one room; where in spite of training and rebuilding this child it is doing the opposite action and make him or her more impolite and it would be problematic for their futures.
Question: Ms. Alkhani; as a mother what is your message to the government?
Answer: My message as a mother and a member of the parliament from the government is to prepare the facilities for the children of this country based on the law because the most vulnerable layer of the society are these; finally if we would like to grant the future of our children and our selves then in training and creation of facilities we should struggle to our maximum level.
Question: Mr. Abid; as a final question from you I would like to ask you that based on your views how can the government overcome with solving these problems?
Answer: As you know the government has the responsibility of implementing laws, the only thing that we are having is the availability of laws, if this facility is established that the government practice these laws then without doubt the most of these problems would be solved.
Many thanks from all the guests and you dears, until the next program good bye and God bless you.
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