Dear hearers of Radio Killid ! Greetings to you, we are in a circle table for you. The issue of today’ circle table is the custom full of violence about women which is submitted by the Awareness Campaign on Community Protection .Our guests are Safia Sidiqi the MP, Jamila Stankzai the women attorney and Mohamad Mohsen Farid the legal consultant to Afghanistan Human Rights Commission. We welcome to the esteemed guests and ask from Farid that what is the violence?
Farid: In the name of God and greeting to you and hearers, the violence commonly and socially has changed to a legal idiom. Any type of actions such as beating, not providing the alimony, making hard the life environment, coercing the women for self burning, or compelling the women for doing anti ethics actions are the issues that includes the violence against women.
Question: Mis .Safia Sidqi ! How the customs full of violence which is known as customs in our community as well and relates to the women has formed historically and socially?
In the name of God, any type of discrimination which has negative affects is called violence. In relation to your question I should say that most of the people think that the weak culture is the source of violence but I think that the basic source of violence is weak economy. For instance when a person lives with weak economy and goes out for earning the alimony and cannot get it without problem, this situation itself puts effect on soul of the person and the person faces with psychological diseases of being knotted. The other issue which exists under name of custom is the giving of bad (A custom through which some arisen problems among the families are solved which is giving a girl or many by one side to other side involved in dispute). The weak economy of families is the main reason for this as well, for example two people fight on an issue due to which one of them is killed, in present custom for prevention the further quarrels they proceed to giving bad which has directly an effect on the women and can be called a violence .
Question: You hinted to the job and occupation, do you think the women who are providers of livelihood for the family, have been able to get rid of the violence of men which is common in our community and work in one row with the men?
Unfortunately no, see! When there is the issue of education under discussion in the families a general difference is seen between boys and girls, when the girl want to go to school or university she should finish house work and should also follow her studies but there is good groundwork of education for boys. In working area there are two kinds of violence first violence at work as it is told her that she is woman she cannot work, second violence in the house when she return from the work she has to prepare the food which can be counted as a instance of violence on the other hand the women exposes of violence psychologically when they return from the work they faces with some words of husband such as What type work is this? Due to this in Afghanistan the women cannot be equal to men.
Quaetion: Mis Stanakzai! Can you name the most important violence and then give explanations about?
Greeting to you! I should say that the violence includes giving bad, compulsory marriages, pre time marriages, not letting the girls for studies, compulsory work, coercing the women to fornication and other instances which are the customs full of violence in our community that creates numerous problems . Another type of violence in some remote districts can be marrying of the girls without their satisfaction also the remarrying the widow women is a type of violence against the women, these all have been inserted in violence elimination law and the punishment has been specified for.
Question: You mentioned the law, and told that there are punishments against customs such as compulsory marriages, pre time marriage, Bad giving, by your mind how much these punishments are applicable?
We have good laws but regarding its implementation I should say that acceptance of the customs is like acceptance of law. In order to replace the customs by law the time is required, also we can solve this problem through giving awareness to the men and women.
Question: Mr.Farid! Mis Stanakzai hinted to literacy and the figures shows that 24 percent of people are literate, considering the issue of literacy; the customs are effective in the provinces or in Kabul?
Before I reply your question I want to mention some words regarding the custom, the customs are told to the habits which has gotten compulsory shape and created a legal base. The customs are not in the written shape and could solve the problems of the people and direct the community on a good way. By passing the time and development of communities these unwritten rules were written on the paper and got legal base. But in our country still the laws have not occupied the place of customs and the community has created some indecent customs which caused many problems.
The article number 509 of the civil law gives the value to the custom issue, but there are some customs in the community especially regarding the women which are used against wishes of the community.
When legal rules take place of the customs the customs automatically effaces. Regarding the literacy I should say that explanation about the laws and raising the people awareness will have good impact in this regard. In the centers the literate people are more for that reason laws are mostly heeded. The women know about their rights but the men are unaware of the women’s rights, this is the situation that the customs are compulsory in the rural areas and unawareness of people from the laws is the main reason for this.
Question: Miss Sidiqi, as you know that the statistics shows that daily 40-60 women or dying during delivery, what is the role of customary violence in this regard?
First I should say that the figures has raised compared to past years, from point view of customary most of the people want to take their wives to the hospitals, but less access to health facilities, lack of transport and weak services of the health facilities causes that the mother or child die . Some of the families don’t take their wives to hospital and counts this as shame that this is also violence against women.
Question: Bad giving is a most indecent custom of the community in the country can you give some explanation in this regard how we can eliminate this custom or at least prevent it?
Miss Stanikzai: The violence is perpetration of some actions which harms the women, one of them is Bad Giving, and this custom is one of the indecent customs but very prevalent and common custom in our community. Giving a woman as bad (bad marriage) is an indecent action which brings worst results and effects because when a women is given to other family due to this custom the women is exposed to numerous violence such as beating, insulting and bad language. Fortunately in the laws of Afghanistan the receiver and giver of bad and the mediators in the deal is sentenced to life imprisonment. But unfortunately this happens rarely in the courts because most of the women don’t have literacy and awareness from this instance of the law.
Question: Miss Stanakzai, Giving bad is a deal that takes place between two persons and it is said to the receiver of bad that this is girl, do whatever you want but what is your idea about selling the daughter.
Yes girl selling which is called dowry, milk price is common in the country which is completely illegal action , fortunately this action has been mentioned as illegal action in the article 54 of the constitution. There are cases also that the girls are sold against animals as in the trip that I had to Kandahar I found that a person had changed his daughter for fighting dog which is a indecent abominable action but in article 24 of law the violence elimination it is has been mentioned that the people who make haste to this action, are sentenced to 10 years imprisonment.
Question: Mr.Fareed, Is it possible to say that when the incorrect customs and how will be weakened?
Fareed: As I mentioned the violence customs against women can be diminished and then be effaced when the men have complete awareness about rights of women, for example giving bad has been prohibited by Islam and mentioned in article 25 of violence elimination as well as in article 527 of punishment law, therefore when the men get awareness about these indecent actions the violence will be diminished in some measure. The second issue is this that whenever the legal laws take place of common law, the level of legal, economic and religious awareness of people raise and the dominance of law be practiced then the problem will be solved or decreased. The women forms half body of the community if they have problems the half part of the community will be in trouble. If the women also try for violence elimination we can say that that the problem will be decreased and effaced.
Question: Miss Sidiqi, One of the violence which exits physically in the community is putting on the Borqa which is not seen in other countries even it has not been seen before King Habibullah Khan Regime so how deep can be counted this issue as violence in the community?
I would like to mention an issue before I reply your question, the violence can be reciprocal, and for example I know a person who had to wait to for five years to provide the dowry asked by the girl’s family, this also can be a type of violence which has basic effect on the women. Now in reply to your question I should say that in my point of view we should not count the wearing of stuff suit as violation, if we ask the women to remove the stuff suit and they go to the community they will not feel comfortable which is also a type of violation, the issue of stuff suit differs in the communities and environment, I should mention that in past the stuff suit had entered as a fashion in our community then its wearing got shape of compulsion.
Our discussion is not for this to eliminate the violence by violence if we want this violence will be two folds on the women imposed. But we should say that in rural areas stuff suit is not wore, for example the nomad women don’t use the stuff suit, other women wear a shawl when they go out for work, anyway I would like to have comment of Mr.Fareed.
Farid: I am entirely against this that stuff suit is veil, because in Islam the veil has been ordered for men and women and it is clear that up to which limit the men and women should observe the veil for example this has been stated in Islam that hair and hands of women should not be visible. We cannot accept stuff suit as a veil because Islamic veil has specific specialties which are clear in Sahria (Religious rules) and the stuff suit exists as tradition in some limited area.
Miss Stanakzai! As it was said that the women cannot go to work with stuff suit in the offices and in rural areas, by your mind, can be effective in decrement of violation the activities of women in different fields?
Miss Stanakzai: Yes the activities of women in communities can have good effect in decrement and elimination of violence against women. For example when the wife helps the husband in farm or office, the husband gives more importance to the wife which decreases the violence against women in the community.
Miss Sidiqi! When the civil law can be succeeded of the traditions and believes which creates violation in the community?
By my mind one of the effective ways in this regard is the awareness and propagation of the departments which are working in this regard. These departments can publish the articles of the civil law on violence elimination against women by television when the men and women watching the television. Through giving the awareness in some of the councils, the women can be informed about their rights, on the other hand implementation of law in the community can have good role in violence decrement against women.
Question: As you are working as lawyer in the field of violence elimination against women, are the authorities of law implementation interested in impartial implementation of the law?
Before I reply I want to add words on Bibi Haji’s comments, it will be better that related departments hold workshops on violence elimination against women in the schools because most of the students don’t access to universities.
Unfortunately when the responsible authorities who are educated as well face with some cases, they see the case, man lordship point of view. They accuse the woman and say that if the woman doesn’t do this the men don’t do any action against them .Sitting on the seats the judges, without hearing statements of women or her lawyer they issue the judicial ruling though recently some of the judges are good and gives at least opportunity to the lawyer to recite the lawsuit .
Question:Mr.Mohsen as a last question I would like to hear from you about law, departments and man lordship .
I would like to discuss the issue from two sides, first existence of the law and second the implementation of the law by executive force and accomplishments of court and attorney general offices. There are good laws about the women rights and equity of men’s and women’s rights in constitution and civil laws but unfortunately justice implementation of law doesn’t take place , though the equal implementation of the law is the rule of courts which has been accepted in Afghanistan as well but judges and attorney generals unknowingly accuse the women based on the custom that they faced with, they issue the decision which is entirely against provision of law whereas in all law of the country the equity of rights has been mentioned.
